Earmark Podcast | Earn Free Accounting CPE

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Katherine Studley: [00:00:00] I really wanted to address everyone. Just let them know that, you know, we understand who you are and we're meeting you right where you are. So the letter says, Dear spicy community, we at the only consultant believe sex work is work and that you and your finances deserve the same respect as a professional in any other industry. After all, you're earning income the same way a real estate agent or insurance broker would. You can expect 100% judgment free services from me and my team. While I am not a sex worker myself, as a woman living in the United States, I understand the importance of financial literacy as a tool of empowerment.

Blake Oliver: [00:00:33] If you'd like to earn CPE credit for listening to this episode, visit Earmark Cpcomm. Download the app, take a short quiz and get your CPE certificate. Continuing education has never been so easy. And now on to the episode. Hey everyone and welcome back to earmark. I'm Blake Oliver, joined today by Kathryn Studley. Kathryn, welcome to the show.

Katherine Studley: [00:01:01] Thank you very much. I am thrilled to be here.

Blake Oliver: [00:01:03] Your business or one of your businesses is called the only consultant. And I understand that you have a specialty, a niche in helping only fans creators. Tell me about that. Yes.

Katherine Studley: [00:01:16] So every day is a new day. That's the first thing. So I started this business. I had the idea in the summer of 2020, right after the pandemic, I was spending a lot of time on social media, and I heard about this new platform called Onlyfans, and I'm a tax accountant by trade. I'd worked for a couple of years in CPA firms, but decided that really wasn't my story. But I was very specialized in the Schedule C, and I knew instantly I said, Hang on, these are all independent contractors. These girls are not going to have any clue how to do their taxes. I can fill this niche. So yeah, I started right at the end of 2020, quit my job on the spot in March of 2021 to build this out.

Blake Oliver: [00:01:52] Wow, that's very brave. And I understand you've brought along your business partner. Who do we have joining us today?

Katherine Studley: [00:01:58] Yes, this is my business partner, Jim Swick.

Jim Swiech: [00:02:01] Yeah, so my background is also traditional tax. I worked my I stayed in a little bit longer than Kathryn, so I worked my way up to partner. I have a couple years in between there in industry as a controller of a real estate company. But yeah, I heard about Kathryn because she used to work at the firm that my firm acquired and it was kind of a crazy idea. Like at first I wasn't the biggest believer in it, and the guy that we acquired was like, This is a really great idea. And, you know, she started working with our firm and that's kind of how we met.

Blake Oliver: [00:02:32] And decided to go into business together. You left your did you leave your job as a partner or what do you call that, your your your role as a partner?

Jim Swiech: [00:02:40] Yeah, I did. So I came on to the idea after a couple of years, like we saw Kathryn grow. I mean, she started the first year. She had a handful of clients, right?

Katherine Studley: [00:02:50] Yeah, maybe did like 12 returns. Second year I did like 125. And that's I feel like when Jim and I started working together was more last tax season.

Jim Swiech: [00:02:56] Yeah. So my firm wasn't exactly thrilled with the idea of this. I mean, it's a traditional CPA firm. We already had too many ten 40s. We can't get through them all. You know, it's massive amounts of extensions every year. We can't just take on another 100 of these like low level returns. Like we're we're searching for bigger businesses with auditing and stuff. So it wasn't, you know, I saw I saw the the vision of Kathryn and they didn't necessarily see it.

Blake Oliver: [00:03:23] Got it. Okay. So you've joined forces and I just got to confirm those numbers. So first year 12 returns, second year, ten times more, 125. Did you say that's correct? Yeah. That's amazing. Okay. And and these are all like only fans, creators?

Katherine Studley: [00:03:40] Not all. Most mostly we're serving the spicy industry. That's that's our niche specifically. So I initially had this idea for only fans, creators that quickly spread to exotic dancers as well. So it's very much an underserved industry. And then I would say maybe 10 or 15% of our client base is just people looking for a nontraditional tax experience. If they're 1099 contractors or W-2, they just kind of see that we're a little bit progressive and want to work with us.

Blake Oliver: [00:04:07] So what? So you saw this happening. You saw that only fans in this this creator economy was building in 2020 and it inspired you to go out and, you know, create a practice built around it. What I know that a lot of people and traditional accounting firms would stay away from this because of stigma and the stereotypes and the misconceptions. What are those common stereotypes and misconceptions about only fans, creators and anyone in the spicy industries, as we say? How do you how what are those and how do you address those?

Katherine Studley: [00:04:45] Yeah, So first of all, I think that everyone is it's just so taboo. It's very hard, I think, for this industry to even like digest that. And there's a lot of like misunderstanding about the industry as well. Like they're not familiar enough with the creator economy to even wrap their head around what would or would not be a business expense. Separately, of course, they're concerned that there is illegal monies being run through these 1099 and cash businesses, which is valid. And we have the like the balance and the checks in place to make sure that's not happening. But it's very much just like an out of the box accounting firm and approach. And full disclosure, I'm not a CPA, so that's why it was very important to me that I always had a CPA sign, The Return. So I've always act as the consultant and then I've sent it to a CPA to sign because I know that's the gold standard. So finding CPAs to be on board with this, I mean, people were hanging, hanging up on on me as soon as I'd call them. Like I had clients that I was getting off of social media and I had no one to complete the work, which was pretty exciting.

Blake Oliver: [00:05:45] So are you helping your clients do the accounting and the bookkeeping as well as. Prepping the returns.

Katherine Studley: [00:05:52] Yes. Yep. We have several clients that are on retainers with us. They're working with us all year round bookkeeping, payroll. We're setting up their LLCs, S-Corp elections, tax planning estimates, the whole nine.

Blake Oliver: [00:06:04] And how is that different for these creators versus just any other business, or is it the similar or, you know, or are there big differences?

Katherine Studley: [00:06:12] Yeah, I mean, it's the same idea. It's all 1099 income. I think an issue is, you know, client support. Our clients just need a little bit more love than your traditional client. May we have just as many customer service specialists as we do tax preparers because we understand the industry and it's important to us that we're constantly educating our clients to make sure that they actually understand their small business instead of just doing the return and sending them on their way.

Jim Swiech: [00:06:39] I think that's what we see a lot too. Like that's another thing like we are on like every single one of our clients we're onboarding this year. So it's because we're moving them from my old firm to to like our new firm. And then there's there's a lot more as we grow. So we're onboarding them all. But some of the returns that are done by other people across the country, it's just like they're taking their numbers. You could tell like the client gave them a PNL and they just slap it on the return. It's like like they don't want to ask him the questions because it's probably a little uncomfortable for a lot of people to ask, you know? But we we can just look at it now. We see so many of these returns and it's like, you know, travel looks too high, clothing looks too high. You know what you know, do you know the rules of this? And then we and then we make them. We're not just preparing the return. We're teaching them about what the right deductions are. If they're if they're a target of an IRS audit, they have a leg to stand on. Like we ask the question, first of all, and they answered it. And as long as they're comfortable with the answer and the rule, then we're preparing the return. So there's actually a lot that goes into it each return.

Blake Oliver: [00:07:44] I mean, historically, sex workers have been discriminated against. Do you see that in audits?

Jim Swiech: [00:07:49] Yeah. So there's this a Forbes article on this, this, this summer about IRS agents targeting the only fans industry. Wow. Definitely. Yeah.

Blake Oliver: [00:07:59] So, like. Like, like pulling them out extra scrutiny, Like more audits as a percentage?

Jim Swiech: [00:08:04] I think so. And it's it's Catherine is on TikTok. So but a lot of these people get a lot of their advice from like TikTok and it's not always the best advice Catherine's on there and she gets good advice.

Katherine Studley: [00:08:15] We give the best.

Jim Swiech: [00:08:16] But there are people that say like, you can just write off any any vacation that you want, you know, just as a business expense. And it's like, you know, Yeah.

Blake Oliver: [00:08:24] Or all your like you said, I think you mentioned clothing, right? It's like, okay if I'm, if I'm on onlyfans, that means I can deduct my entire wardrobe because I'm on camera with it. Right. And that's the advice they're getting on TikTok.

Jim Swiech: [00:08:35] Exactly.

Katherine Studley: [00:08:36] Yep. That's exactly what we see. Want to take our whole, whole home as a home office? We you know, they're trying to write off every single thing. But just because they don't have the the knowledge.

Jim Swiech: [00:08:44] So that's one thing that I was a little concerned about because I thought that I thought that they wouldn't really take the message. Well, when I'm telling them they can't write this stuff off, but we're just approaching it as our job. Our responsibility is to protect you from the IRS. You know, it's not just to fill out your numbers and slap them on a schedule C and file it for more than you'd pay an H&R block to do. Like we take our job seriously. We want to protect every one of our clients. Yep.

Blake Oliver: [00:09:09] So going back to the accounting, you know, thinking about the PNL and revenue streams, I know like gig workers have lots of different revenue streams. There are lots of different, you know, 1090 nine seconds they get. Is it similar for these creators where they're on a bunch of different platforms and they're getting a ton of different reports or a ton of different, you know, 1090 nine seconds or they tend to they tend to be on one.

Katherine Studley: [00:09:30] Well, I mean, you know, there's definitely several clients that Onlyfans is their one and only source of income. But I don't know if you remember a couple of years ago, Onlyfans was talking about not allowing sex work on the platform, and that scared a lot of creators, as it should. So then they were starting to diversify by getting on different platforms. So yeah, there's like a top, there's like five that we see a lot Fancy fan, Central Chaturbate, Sex Panther, stuff like that. And then separately, a lot of tips on Cash App, Venmo, PayPal and Zelle. And that's where things also get a little bit exciting is because they're accepting tips in their DMS on Twitter and Instagram too.

Blake Oliver: [00:10:06] Oh, got it. And that often gets mixed up with personal stuff, I imagine.

Katherine Studley: [00:10:10] There you go.

Blake Oliver: [00:10:11] Yes, because it's your it's your Venmo that you're using to pay your half your rent or whatever. Right. It's all untangling. That must be quite a bookkeeping job.

Jim Swiech: [00:10:22] It's actually not too bad because usually usually they'll print us out the sheets, not print out. I guess I'm old. I say that paper we would never.

Katherine Studley: [00:10:30] Yeah.

Jim Swiech: [00:10:31] They give us screenshots of their of all their transactions and they like circle the ones that are business so it's actually pretty easy.

Katherine Studley: [00:10:37] Yeah. Got it. And I try to provide a lot of free information all year round On starting separate bank account. Here's a free spreadsheet, here's a free document on every tax document you can ever get. Just so it's kind of like always top of mind when I say start a separate bank account until my face turns blue. Like it's my main theme.

Jim Swiech: [00:10:55] And you're like, you're always saying, like, that's taxable stuff. A lot of people don't think that if you get paid on Venmo, it's not taxable, right? No, Catherine's just delivering that message over and over again. That is taxable income. Yeah.

Blake Oliver: [00:11:06] So, Catherine, I take it you acquired these, you know, hundreds of returns now that you're doing these clients on social media, was it all TikTok? Is that your platform of choice? Yep.

Katherine Studley: [00:11:17] So my sales funnel started on TikTok. I never used TikTok before, but I knew that that's where Onlyfans creators were. So when I quit my job, I spent 13 hours a day on TikTok for a couple of weeks and just, you know, understood the platform and how it works. And then I was doing the same trends in like Sounds and TikTok dances that creators were. And then at the end, I would just say like judgment free tax advice with a wink. And then if you read between the lines and you read between the lines and they understood what it was and then they would follow me onto Instagram and that's where I kind of like nurture and cultivate the audience a little bit more. I feel like in my stories, like whoever watches my stories is pretty much a client. So we have like a good pocket corner of the Internet.

Blake Oliver: [00:11:56] Oh, interesting. So TikTok is like the top of your funnel. Yes. That's where you create the fun content that says, Now follow me on Instagram for the actual tax and accounting knowledge.

Katherine Studley: [00:12:09] Yep, yep. And that's where I'm like making, you know, like announcements about, All right, guys, like, we need your tax documents by April 1st. Like, that's a message that's specifically for Instagram, whereas TikTok is like, Hey, LLCs don't equal more write offs. It's kind of like a little bit more catchy. So that's been very effective. And then separately, I'm in some telegram group chats with different influencers, like as we're, you know, I try to get to know all my clients as much as I can through consultations and like interactions on social media. So I've been invited to like different group chats too, which has been very helpful just to meet clients exactly where they are, basically.

Blake Oliver: [00:12:45] So, you know, we know there's a lot of there's a lot of. Misconceptions about deductions and the ones you shouldn't take. What are the deductions that these creators should be taking and that their preparer should be aware of?

Katherine Studley: [00:12:59] Yes. I mean, a portion of your phone expense, right. Because you're using their phone to create content and to go on social media. Marketing expense. They're doing paid promo or shout out for shout outs on social media. So if you have a bigger following than me, I would pay you $100 on cash app to shout me out. That's a valid marketing expense. You know, they're also using photographers, managers paying out their collabs for different content makeup, Warning content creation is a write off as long as they have the separate bag. And there's some nuances with the beauty supplies like strip lashes that you just glue on for the day would be a write off because it can come off. But then like an extension that is like sewn on would not. Same thing with wigs and hair extensions and acrylic nails and press on nails. So there's a lot of those situations as well.

Blake Oliver: [00:13:46] Oh, I can't wait to see the IRS guidance specifically on that issue someday. Yes, that's going to that's going to be a moment, right? I know it's coming. Yep. What are the biggest challenges you face working with only fans? Creators?

Katherine Studley: [00:13:59] Great question.

Jim Swiech: [00:14:01] I don't really honestly like I was a little worried about it at first because, you know, I'm used to working with traditional CPA like small business clients. And, you know, and these people are just like great to work with. Like, generally speaking, it's been just like a pleasure. It's like they've, they've loved our advice, like they're friendly all along the, all along the way And like maybe they're not as organized. Maybe they don't know as much about, you know, taxes. And so it's a lot of hand-holding at first. Like that's probably the biggest challenge. But ultimately it's also kind of a rewarding part about it because at my old firm, you know, you're just pounding out a ton of returns. Like, you know, the people are I guess they're probably thankful, but it's just not it's just not the same level of service, you know?

Katherine Studley: [00:14:46] Yeah, definitely. And I think that also a challenge is managing everyone's emotions too, because initially there is so much fear and confusion and shame and embarrassment surrounding taxes and not understanding money, and people are very hard on themselves. So that's something that we try to make very clear in our messaging too, is that like, you know, we got you like, I know this is confusing. I know it's hard. Like, don't be scared of a big tax bill. Like we can help you.

Blake Oliver: [00:15:11] Yeah, actually, that reminds me. I saw a stat recently that. People are more embarrassed about finances and tax, and they would rather talk about stuff like sex these days than finances. And that's in the, you know, younger generations.

Katherine Studley: [00:15:28] And we're talking about all of it.

Blake Oliver: [00:15:29] Yeah.

Jim Swiech: [00:15:31] Conversations, for.

Katherine Studley: [00:15:32] Sure. Yeah. Just another day in prison attacks. No problem.

Blake Oliver: [00:15:36] Uh, so, you know, a lot of firms are talking about getting out of ten 40s and, you know, not doing personal returns and everyone wants to do big business returns, but you're not doing that. You're going the opposite direction. So, you know, how do you make it work from a profitability standpoint?

Jim Swiech: [00:15:52] Our pricing structure is good. Yeah.

Katherine Studley: [00:15:54] I mean, we charge what what we're worth. We charge appropriately for the service being provided and we pay everyone on staff a reasonable salary too. And it's just talk more about that.

Jim Swiech: [00:16:03] Yeah. It's, I think, I think it's all based on the pricing structure. So our minimum prices are 575 for 1040, which is higher than most. If you go to H&R Block, you'll pay, what, three, 50, 400 bucks maybe for a schedule C, So we're a little we're a little more expensive and that goes up like that's our starting price. And then on top of that, like, you know, you are an accountant. I'm an accountant. She was an accountant. Nobody. You go to a party, nobody wants to hear about your job. Right? So this completely changed that. Like every party that I go to now, it's like everybody wants to hear about what we're doing. So it's like this resonates with with the industry because we have employees all over reaching out, wanting to work with us, which is just the complete opposite of what I faced at my old firm. The hardest thing in the world was to get talent in the door and like, we've gotten talent from all over the country, from people that maybe don't start off as accountants, but they can most definitely do the job. So that's why we think that we can succeed in the 1040 world, too, because we can just our secret our secret weapon is hiring moms really stay at home moms and people that are smart and they're looking they want some extra income. And it's just like we're eager to hire them and we're eager to train them because it's just that's great. It works for you. It works for us.

Blake Oliver: [00:17:19] And are these folks leaving these moms, you know, leaving traditional firms, is that where you're finding them or are they how are you where do they come from?

Katherine Studley: [00:17:29] Where are the moms come from? Yeah, yeah.

Jim Swiech: [00:17:31] Yeah. One former nurses. Former. What is it? What is it? Nsa.

Katherine Studley: [00:17:38] Nsa. Yeah. We have some very interesting people on staff. We have. I like, you know, Jim and I are creatives. We're accountants, but we also have a creative mind. So I think it's important to hire creatives because we're working with creatives as well. So we have three staff members that are musicians. They have like their master's in education and musical performance. We have hairstylists, former hairstylists, you know, just whoever we think kind of like meshes with the vision and the clients and who has a desire to learn. You don't necessarily have to be an accountant to work to work for us. We have former sex workers, former current and former clients.

Jim Swiech: [00:18:15] I think that's we look at it like the person. We're not looking. If you're looking for accountants, you're your search is so like narrowed. It's like we just want good people, smart people. We could teach them how to do these returns. They're not the most complex thing in the world. It's like we're looking for the right person and we are. We've been successful with that.

Katherine Studley: [00:18:33] Definitely.

Blake Oliver: [00:18:34] That was going to be my next question is, okay, you're finding these great people who want to work, and I take it they're working remotely.

Katherine Studley: [00:18:41] Everyone's yeah.

Blake Oliver: [00:18:42] Everyone's remote. And so, yeah, you're teaching them how to do the ten 40s. Like, how does that work? Do you have a course, Do you sit one on one with them, Do you do it in a group? I mean there is a lot of knowledge to be transferred there. Yeah.

Katherine Studley: [00:18:55] We use so I mean I have a, like a basic text course that I have for clients that I let everyone sit through. We use loom a lot. That's our, that's like our second secret weapon is using loom videos So Jim will take a video of himself preparing a return. You know we'll have the work papers up and then it becomes like a lesson and they can watch it back as many times as they need to. And then we have like essentially a resource library for onboarding and for new issues that will have so people can reference that constantly.

Jim Swiech: [00:19:21] Yeah, we also do live training too. So when people come on first, we it kind of depends on how they learn. I like to kind of give them the option because like if they come in at the beginning of tax season, a lot of our clients procrastinate.

Katherine Studley: [00:19:34] Yeah. So that's another thing. We're kind of.

Jim Swiech: [00:19:36] Twiddling our thumbs the first couple of weeks of tax season when we could just be training our staff. However they, however they need to be trained, really kind of leave it up to the staff.

Katherine Studley: [00:19:45] Yeah. And that goes back into the creative portion of this, which is not usually that you can marry accounting and creativity, but we've found a way to do that.

Blake Oliver: [00:19:55] Loom is a great tool, love that tool. So that is the, that's the tool where for those who haven't used it, you can record your screen and a little bubble of your your your face in the corner as you narrate what you're doing what you mentioned that you also have like a sound like a wiki or a, you know, a place where you store information. What are you using for that?

Katherine Studley: [00:20:16] Yeah. So we're using Clickup, which is Clickup, like Trello or Asana. It's a project management system which we've pretty much just tailored to our tax process. And then we use proconnect for the tax prep.

Jim Swiech: [00:20:28] Yeah, So exactly. So we had to work on Clickup quite a bit to get it to kind of fill our needs for public accounting. But we've, we've made it work.

Blake Oliver: [00:20:39] So yeah, it's interesting, I, it's probably 5050 when I talk to firm owners, whether or not they're using a specific tool for accountants and for accounting firms or if they're using a tool that's general purpose and that they've. Tailored. And I was actually in your camp when I had my firm. There weren't any specialized solutions, so I used a Citrix tool called Podio, which it's got all the same, you know, features a collaborative workspace, task management, that sort of thing. What was the biggest lift in getting Clickup to work for your firm?

Jim Swiech: [00:21:11] I think it was probably like so Catherine was like a one man army, one woman army.

Katherine Studley: [00:21:16] It was crazy.

Jim Swiech: [00:21:17] Last year, and then I joined in and went through everything of leaving my firm and all that at the end of the year. But she had her two two years of experience and she has her passion about helping people in this industry. She didn't necessarily have the 15 years of public accounting experience that I have. You know, So so I think it was just coming in and just kind of using my knowledge to build it out the way we needed it to be built. But yeah, compared to like, like we used CCH at my old firm access tax, the whole platform. And then before that we used ultra tax and Thomson Reuters and this is just so much more flexible. Like you can do so much more stuff with Clickup embed. We could embed these videos like training videos right into our like 1040 projects if we want to. So a client or a staff could go in there and just like click on the video if they wanted to see it. Like, you can't do that with normal accounting software.

Blake Oliver: [00:22:11] No. Yeah. And you said you're using proconnect for the taxes. Yeah. And how do you like that compared to what you've used in the past?

Jim Swiech: [00:22:19] Like I had a real problem with access tax. It was very slow. It was like you click somewhere and you're waiting three seconds for the screen to change. It was terrible. I had awful tax seasons with that. Ultra tax was I liked ultra tax better. But yeah, Proconnect is so far so good. It's smooth, it's very easy. It has it's, you know, there's times when you're working in it and it like will just kind of disconnect because you're not active or you're looking into something else. And if you didn't move to another screen, it'll like erase everything that you did, which sometimes is a pain, but ultimately I love that it's browser based and you could access it from anywhere. We don't have to maintain like any sort of like database data center or anything. It's like it's all done by them and our staff remote as they are, they can just log in on anything.

Blake Oliver: [00:23:06] So no virtual servers that you have to worry about. No servers in the office. Yeah, that's great.

Jim Swiech: [00:23:11] And we use like their, their what is it Intuit link which you know that's been okay it's been somewhat challenging but we've customized that like as well as we can and we deliver messages from Catherine in there and we, we embed videos like right and right in our email that goes out to them. So I haven't.

Blake Oliver: [00:23:30] I haven't heard about Intuit link. Tell me about that. Like what what what does that do?

Jim Swiech: [00:23:33] It's like an organizer. So the client goes in there and they could sign right off on their engagement letter electronically, which is awesome. We have a bunch of yes, no questions then some specifically designed for our industry to make sure we're covered. So asking about, hey, do you collect money in Venmo or Cash app whatever we have that. Yes. No. So if they say no, we're taking their word for it. You know, we can't we're not auditing them, but we have to ask the question. And then it has the document collection piece, which is, you know, upload your W-2, upload your 1099, which they all have. Catherine's got a specifically designed spreadsheet for their income and expenses for the lower people that are on QuickBooks. And then they upload that and they can do it all right from their phone. They can take pictures of their W-2s, they can take pictures of their 1099 and just send it to us. So it's.

Blake Oliver: [00:24:21] Crazy. It sounds like it's QuickBooks for the bookkeeping.

Speaker4: [00:24:25] Yep.

Jim Swiech: [00:24:26] Yeah, that's what we do. Oh, also another cool thing about it, Proconnect, is you can import the documents into the tax return. So CCH had auto flow is called and you had to pay like 12 bucks per use. So when you run the numbers, it's like, is this worth it?

Blake Oliver: [00:24:41] Should have it. Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah.

Jim Swiech: [00:24:43] Crazy. So this is all built into the price of the of the returns the way they do it.

Blake Oliver: [00:24:49] So, so that's like pulling the 1099 and it puts the information in, put the scans in the. I got it. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny that like, why would, why would a tax company software company charge extra for that kind of feature. Right. Just build it into the price of the return or the subscription for the software.

Jim Swiech: [00:25:06] Yeah. Cch is they hit you with everything. Whenever there's a chance to make money, it's like they're hitting you with it for sure.

Blake Oliver: [00:25:15] So we got we got QuickBooks on the bookkeeping side. Any other apps that you use or recommend to your creators?

Katherine Studley: [00:25:21] Catherine Um, I'm trying to think. I mean, not really. It's pretty much they're using the spreadsheet mostly for their income and expense tracking. I have some that are using different apps like Truebill or something like that, but it's mostly just been yeah, the spreadsheet loom Gmail. We tried.

Blake Oliver: [00:25:42] How about the what about like S Corp payrolls? You know, they got to pay themselves.

Jim Swiech: [00:25:46] We do Gusto.

Blake Oliver: [00:25:48] Gusto.

Jim Swiech: [00:25:49] Got it. So we usually charge a fee we give our. Option. So it's like we'll charge you a fee up front. Gusto offers that. So our clients are all over the country, so it's like registering for states. They don't they don't want anything to do with that. And that's a pain for us too. So Gusto has that option inside that we can pay them to do all the registrations for us. And then we have a fee. If clients want us to set it up, we will. We'll help them. We make a little bit on it, but our goal is just really to get them to get in and get payroll done because we want them to be able to be the escort.

Speaker4: [00:26:20] Yeah, yeah.

Blake Oliver: [00:26:21] Yeah. I love that feature. That is nice. Not having to do it yourself.

Jim Swiech: [00:26:24] Yeah, it's the worst.

Blake Oliver: [00:26:25] Some of those states, you know, it really is like a paper based process still to get those numbers that you need. Yeah, it's horrible. Um, anything else you want to add on the technology? I love nerding out about the technology that we use to to do this all remotely.

Katherine Studley: [00:26:44] No, I mean, that's the main that's the main story. I mean, we do a lot of things with Clickup, like we have the forms and clickup, you know, we just need like a quick document from someone. Like we won't have them sign in to the Intuit link. We'll just send them a form. I'll embed a loom video. We use a loom video for like customer service stuff too. So if we have a batch of people that need to like complete their payroll, I'll make a quick video and then we'll send it to every individual. So it's like a personal touch, but it's still scalable.

Blake Oliver: [00:27:08] So the form, let's talk about that. So you're in Clickup and what you're working on a task and you want to get information from me. Let's say I'm the client. What does that look like for me? Yeah.

Katherine Studley: [00:27:19] So I mean, so in our end, you know, we have different spaces. We have like a 1040 space, 1120 space payroll, space, bookkeeping, so on and so forth. So let's say we want to do your 1040 extension. So we have a form at the top of the 1040 space that says, you know, extension information. It's a video for me at the top says, Hey guys, we need a couple documents from you before we can extend this is end to end encrypted. Let us know if you have any questions. You can just drop it in and then it's there. Whatever basic information, driverless and front and back, they can easily upload that just comes in a link to them. We can text it to them and then when they submit it back, we we've worked with the automations within Clickup so that it comes up with the client name first and then it'll have all their information and we can drop it in Intuit or the Google Drive or whatever. But it's just a very quick way to get information from clients.

Blake Oliver: [00:28:05] Yeah, I mean that's fantastic. Comparing that to the traditional like CPA firm portal process. Yeah. Which I, I have to go through with my preparer. I mean that I can't open that I can't easily upload documents on my phone, you know, I have to scan them and then do it on my computer. It's and I imagine, you know, most of your clients, like they might not even be using a computer and, you know, they're all doing it all on their phones, right?

Katherine Studley: [00:28:28] Yeah, sometimes. Definitely.

Jim Swiech: [00:28:30] That's another thing. We're kind of like starting to roll out. So texting because our clients are like emails are like it takes it takes a lot of time. Like, it's like, that's that's a frustrating thing, too. It's a challenge, I guess. You know, they upload all their stuff and we look through it and then we ask them questions on it, like right up front, like and, and then sometimes you're waiting like, you know, a day, two days for a.

Katherine Studley: [00:28:53] Response or way more or Yeah.

Jim Swiech: [00:28:55] Or you're trying to wrap up a return. It's like, I need a quick answer. I'll send them an email. Oh, crap. I got to put this down for two days and pick it up. It's like instead, like we're starting to think about like texting because we're using Google numbers and texting and we're having a lot of success with that, like instant answers. So we're so we're actually looking for like a better solution for that in the future.

Blake Oliver: [00:29:16] What advice would you give to other accountants or bookkeepers who might be interested in working with Onlyfans creators or other nontraditional industries like this?

Katherine Studley: [00:29:25] Be patient and approach everyone as a human with an open mind. That's that's key. Like Jim and I were literally just talking about this. I think the secret to a lot of our success is just the golden rule, literally just treating people how they would like to be treated and then just understanding, of course, that this clientele has pretty much no exposure to tax or financial literacy. So they're going to require a little bit more from you on on your end. And, you know, I would encourage you to tailor your processes to to them, listen to your client base. Like if if it's taking too long to get emails from everyone, then maybe there's another option. You know, it's think about nontraditional tax, basically like forget everything you learned. We use like emojis and I swear on the phone with clients and it works great. You know, we're very, very casual in our correspondence. And I think that they really appreciate that because it seems like there's another true human on the other end of it instead of just a robot doing your taxes.

Blake Oliver: [00:30:25] Do you have? Like, I mean, I understand. We got to respect client confidentiality and privacy. But I'm I'm curious to know, who are your clients? Like, do you have a story you could tell about a client or like, like, how do they get into this? Yeah. How does how does one become an onlyfans creator where that is your livelihood? Yeah, there's.

Katherine Studley: [00:30:47] A few avenues, you know, one is a lot of clients are TikTok famous and they have a huge audience that they can leverage. So they have, you know, 800,000 people following every single thing they do. So we have like a lot of van lifers where like, people were just interested in their story and they just had another platform to monetize. Another thing about Onlyfans is that it's as spicy as you want it to be. So a lot of, you know, some clients are only posting bikini pictures, so it's you don't really know exactly what their niche is until you talk to them a bit more. A lot of fitness influencers, a lot of people that were already doing something spicy before this, like dancers were crossing over to twitch streamers, traditional models, you know, it had a lot to do with the pandemic. I think a lot of people, just myself included, just kind of like was rethinking their their life and their income streams. So everyone kind of has a unique story.

Jim Swiech: [00:31:46] Yeah, it's interesting when you see the people that are still like speaking to your discretion point, you see people that are still like teaching or they're still like in the in whatever industry that they were in, they're still holding those positions.

Speaker4: [00:32:00] So it's really it's.

Jim Swiech: [00:32:01] Super important for us and our staff to to realize this and be like, you know, this this is part of our gig. It's confidentiality.

Speaker4: [00:32:10] Big time. Yeah, big time. Yeah.

Blake Oliver: [00:32:11] That's interesting because I remember hearing stories. There was a there was a story about. It could have been a while now, like ten years ago or more, where, you know, it's a woman who had done porn when she was younger and then left and became a teacher and was being sort of chased from town to town because people would find out about her background and then she'd be you know, she'd lose her job. Has that changed or is that still a problem?

Katherine Studley: [00:32:38] Like it's a problem. It's a problem, definitely for teachers. I have some clients that are former teachers that were fired because of their, you know, affiliation with Onlyfans. I think depending on the industry that you're working in, like I think some of our clients that are paralegals, nurses, I think that there could be some issues there. But we also have several clients that are quitting their full time, 9 to 5 because they're making way more in Onlyfans you're making 50 grand a month. It's a no brainer.

Blake Oliver: [00:33:06] Yeah. Is that unusual or like, you know. Yeah. What is the economics of this? I mean.

Jim Swiech: [00:33:13] It's all over the board. It's. I think so what we probably. I'd say what percentage? Maybe. I'd say maybe 5% is like 500 and up. Yeah. A lot of them are maybe a little less than that. A lot of them are 100 to 200, but the vast majority of people are like maybe 40, 50, $60,000 a year.

Blake Oliver: [00:33:39] So it's either I have this like super flexible job and I have low cost of living or it's a side hustle. Yep. For most of them. But then you said you said like 5% are making, you know, half $1 million a year or more. And that's. Or more. Yeah.

Speaker4: [00:33:55] That's amazing. Yeah.

Katherine Studley: [00:33:56] And it's, you know, it's kind of an interesting industry because social media is very volatile. Tiktok is very, very, very sensitive. So I've seen clients that are making, you know, five grand a month normally, and then they have one little six second video that for some reason gets goes viral and gets caught up in the algorithm. And now they made $80,000 a month and now that's their new baseline.

Blake Oliver: [00:34:15] And that could go away. That could go away next.

Katherine Studley: [00:34:18] We've seen it go in the opposite way.

Jim Swiech: [00:34:19] So we've seen it go the opposite way. And that's like sad and scary because, you know, they're making like some people are like $1 million a year and it's like the next year they're half of that. And you can just see it month to month by month, like decreasing. So like we're eventually going to get probably more into financial planning with these people too, because it's like a lot of them will be like jamming the maximum contributions away and it's like, you can't touch this money until you're 60 and you're 22 years old. Like. I think we have to balance this out a little bit more and like be careful with these clients because it's just I don't think they realize the consequences of what they're doing. And some advisors just have them max everything out and it's like, I don't know if that's the best move for for you.

Blake Oliver: [00:35:00] Yeah, sometimes minimizing the tax liability isn't exactly the most important thing, right? Yeah. Like you said, you can't touch the retirement savings until you're 60 and you're. You got 40 years until you get there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. That's. Yeah. You can't just have a rule, right? It has to be. It has to be flexible.

Speaker4: [00:35:21] Yeah. Case by case.

Blake Oliver: [00:35:22] Yeah. That's amazing. Like, and this, this industry, you know, it's only been around for what, like less than a decade that people have been doing this. Yeah. We've got talk about like Tik Tok getting banned in the United States. Are you all worried about that? I mean, that could have a huge impact on this whole this whole space.

Speaker4: [00:35:43] Yeah, it's.

Katherine Studley: [00:35:44] Definitely a topic of conversation, hot topic every day. We're talking about it on social media. You know, I'm trying to encourage clients to start their own email list and try to as far as like a CRM goes. But there's also so many other platforms, like I have clients that are on TikTok, but they're also killing it on Twitter or they have, you know, huge Instagram followings as well. So like from a client perspective, from our perspective, I think at this point, our social media is established enough that we can survive off of Instagram and referrals and just Google searches. But yeah, TikTok being banned is definitely top of mind every day. Yeah. And a lot of on that topic kind of like an interesting nuance, too, is that a lot of our clients are getting banned on TikTok because it's very, very sensitive. The I if you if you post if you say spicy account, that's like code word for onlyfans and they'll they'll close your account and they'll block you from your IP of your the IP address of your phone, not just your account. So we'll have clients that will go through 4 or 5 iPhones through the year because they continue to get banned on TikTok. But it's a valid business expense because that's where they're finding all of their their subscribers.

Blake Oliver: [00:36:49] Wow. And it's linked to the phone that you used. Yes. So you've got to buy a new phone.

Speaker4: [00:36:53] Yes. Yes.

Blake Oliver: [00:36:55] So it's there's a parallel here, right. Because we are recording this and it's just a week or two after the Silicon Valley Bank collapse, which reminded everybody that we should be diversifying where we bank, that we shouldn't keep all our money in one place, which, you know, is sort of I've always considered that to be kind of like obvious. But apparently it wasn't to a lot of, you know, really smart people. And I guess we could take the same lesson from this potential TikTok threat. It hasn't happened yet. So now's the chance to diversify your followers. Right. And your income streams is is build up an audience on a separate platform, too?

Jim Swiech: [00:37:31] Exactly. I think those that do like will succeed. And for us, like, I'm not too worried about it because the market's there, right? Like there's customers. So whatever platform takes over, the content creators that succeed there, I think will come to us because because we're a good company. You know, we live by the golden Rule. We want to help these people. So to me, I don't think, you know, it's it's that much of a threat to us. But if I was a content creator, I would be concerned and I would be jumping on another platform and diversifying for sure.

Katherine Studley: [00:38:01] Yep, I agree. And then I mean, just quickly, you talked about banks. There's another nuance with our industry as well, is that many banks are not sex work friendly or porn friendly. And if you look in the, you know, the terms of services at the very bottom in fine print, it says nothing spicy in any bank accounts. Basically, it's the moral of the story. So we're, you know, having issues setting up payroll with some clients. I've seen clients get shut out of their bank accounts. If it's anything from a small credit union to chase to Wells Fargo, like there really isn't a safe place to bank that we have been able to find and really recommend to clients. And that's something that is also always top of mind and something that we're always trying to guide clients to. But they see that Phoenix deposit, which is the only fans like holding company and they're getting flagged gusto too.

Jim Swiech: [00:38:46] Wow.

Speaker4: [00:38:46] Yeah. Yeah.

Jim Swiech: [00:38:47] So probably one in every five of our clients that we get set up on payroll gets rejected by gusto. And then we have to turn around and find another payroll solution.

Blake Oliver: [00:38:56] So help me understand why these policies exist. Because what these creators are doing is completely legal.

Speaker4: [00:39:04] Yeah.

Blake Oliver: [00:39:05] So what what why do these banks and, you know, payment processors give them such a hard time?

Katherine Studley: [00:39:13] It's something bigger than us. You know, the creators definitely have their own opinions on why it's happening, but there's just always been discrimination against this industry. And but now for the first time, it's legitimized in a way that it hasn't been where, you know, maybe in the past CamGirls were making a lot of money on Venmo or in generic wire transfers, but now they're getting an actual 1099 making legal income, you know, leveraging their own audience and their small business that they're that they've built. And they're not allowed to bank anywhere because of some old fine print crap.

Jim Swiech: [00:39:43] It's like, how many of these CEOs were like visiting Epstein Island? You know, it's like.

Speaker4: [00:39:47] How many of them?

Jim Swiech: [00:39:48] I'd love to take that list and see how many are CEOs of banks and then and then read their the terms of their contracts. It's just like it's yeah, it's hypocrisy.

Blake Oliver: [00:39:58] How many of the people who work at these banks subscribe to Onlyfans? Yeah, it's probably a huge percentage just looking at the numbers, right? Actually, can you give us, you know, give me an idea of the scope of of Onlyfans. Right. I hear about it. We hear about it frequently and it's often the butt of jokes. And, you know, it's like, oh, you know, I'm just going to quit my job and go post pics on Onlyfans. Right. That's the stupid joke. What's the. But it's a real big business, right?

Speaker4: [00:40:26] It's not a.

Katherine Studley: [00:40:27] Game. Not a game at all. No, it's. It's big money.

Jim Swiech: [00:40:30] It's a multi-billion dollar industry. Yeah. Billion.

Katherine Studley: [00:40:32] I clients that have teams of people assistants and they're making anywhere between. So the subscription is between 499 and 49.99 a month. You set your own subscription. It's an 8020 split between the creator and only fans and only fans. Cut is taken before their 1099 is issued. So just from the top, they're making a ton off of subscriptions, but different clients have different sales strategies. So if it's a numbers game, you know they have a huge audience on TikTok. Maybe they'll keep it at 899, you know, and whatever. They're kind of playing with it. Some clients have free accounts and it's free to subscribe to them and they'll give you a couple pictures for free. But then beyond that, it's all pay per click. And we're actually when you're seeing the printout of their their income on Onlyfans a lot of time, it's mostly coming from these paper clicks instead of the subscriptions.

Blake Oliver: [00:41:24] So the, the user is like paying every time they click on a picture.

Katherine Studley: [00:41:29] Yeah. So it'll be, Oh wow. Literally. So you know, it'll be like your shoulder in the shower. Be like pay five bucks, see the full thing. And then everyone just impulse buys five bucks. And now she just made three times as much as she would have in monthly subscriptions off of that picture.

Blake Oliver: [00:41:44] Wow. That's that's genius. That's like, you know, I'm thinking of, like, gaming in-app purchases. Like, yeah, it's that kind of psychological thing.

Speaker4: [00:41:51] Yeah.

Jim Swiech: [00:41:52] And then the numbers wise, as far as, like the last time I checked, there's 2.5 million content creators on Onlyfans worldwide. I don't know what the breakdown is in the US, but from our perspective, we're like our business model is we want to take a small piece, a small percentage of this, like think about that. If you take 1% of the total market that nobody like, there are people that specialize in this. But the competition isn't extremely fierce for tax accountants working in this industry.

Blake Oliver: [00:42:21] Yeah, I certainly I mean, maybe they do, but they certainly haven't branded themselves or their firm as serving this industry. I mean, you're one of the few that I'm even aware of.

Speaker4: [00:42:31] It's bold, like my logo.

Katherine Studley: [00:42:34] If you've seen my logo, like it's it's like a hot girl, like business person. Like, it's a very bold statement, but yeah, effective.

Blake Oliver: [00:42:41] Well, it appeals to your target audience, right? That's who they are. And. And it's got attitude and swagger. Right? Actually, let's pull that open. You know, maybe you can give us some tips on, like, creating. A website, you know, creating content that appeals to who you want to serve. So I love the name. By the way, we have to repeat this. The only consultant.com.

Speaker4: [00:43:04] Thank you.

Blake Oliver: [00:43:05] I mean, very appropriate, right. Only fans the only consultant and I mean you've basically created a monopoly for yourself right there with that.

Speaker4: [00:43:12] Name and.

Katherine Studley: [00:43:13] The opportunity to expand beyond tax because it's not I mean it's the only consultant. It's not the only accountant, it's the only consult ever need. So we're starting with tax. Like Jim said, we can expand to financial services, to real estate, like the sky's the limit. E-commerce, you know, we also have our website, Prisma, Tax.com. That's like a little bit more of our like vanilla online identity, I guess. But yeah, the only consultant like the home pages don't get fucked by taxes. It's the first thing that you see is my face.

Blake Oliver: [00:43:39] And I was going to say that that's the subhead, right? H2 on the web pages. Don't get fucked by taxes. Yes, that's great. And then you list very clearly the three things that I take it are probably the three main things you do right now. Tax prep and planning, bookkeeping and LLC and S Corp formation. Yep.

Katherine Studley: [00:43:57] Yep. And everything has been created in Squarespace. That's what we use for both of our websites. And then in addition we use the acuity feature for the calls and you can price them any way that you want. And then we have we have the calls flow into clickup. So just a little bit more on the tech side of how we're setting things up.

Blake Oliver: [00:44:18] I also really like this page you have and you've put it in the top menu. And the the link is Dear spicy community. And when I click on it, there's a letter that you've written from you. Would you mind reading that? Because I think it's a it's a great way to, I don't know, express what you're doing. And and I know it's unusual. It's something you don't really see, like a letter from the founder to the prospects or the clients.

Katherine Studley: [00:44:45] Yeah. I mean, I really wanted to address everyone, just let them know that, you know, we understand who you are and we're meeting you right where you are. So the letter says, Dear spicy community, we are the only consultant believe sex work is work and that you and your finances deserve the same respect as a professional in any other industry. After all, you're earning income the same way a real estate agent or insurance broker would. You can expect 100% judgment free services from me and my team. While I am not a sex worker myself, as a woman living in the United States, I understand the importance of financial literacy as a tool of empowerment. By taking control of your finances, you can pursue the quality of life that you deserve. It's no secret that there is also a dark side to the adult industry in order to ensure all of my clients are part of this industry. Consensually, I have partnered with Deliver Fund and Queens of the Underworld to learn about the realities of industry related trauma and sex trafficking and get victims the help that they need. Human trafficking can happen to anyone, and we're committed to doing our part to end it. You can find information on these organizations as well as the only consultants, terms and conditions below. Stay safe.

Blake Oliver: [00:45:45] Catherine That's great. And then you've got a notice there, a link to the National Human Trafficking Hotline.

Jim Swiech: [00:45:51] That's great. Should talk about that.

Katherine Studley: [00:45:53] Yeah, I mean, trafficking, I mean, this is an accounting podcast, but again, nuances specific to our, to our niche and our industry is that, you know, human trafficking and sex trafficking happens mostly actually in the United States. And it's very important to us to make sure that everyone that is in this industry is in it because they want to be and not because they're being coerced into it. So we all you know, we take a training from the Deliver Fund, which is a nonprofit group that I work with. They support banks and hotels and airlines. But, you know, they gave us presentations on what trafficking might look like in bank statements and on social media. And unfortunately, that is something that we have come across, which is something, you know, it's important that we're all trained on it and we all are aware of, especially when a lot of these onlyfans creators are using managers. There's a lot of very legitimate managers out there and there's a lot of scammers and there's a lot that are essentially pimps. So that's something that's also on our radar that, you know, you wouldn't get with a traditional tax firm.

Blake Oliver: [00:46:58] So you're not just helping your clients with their finances and their taxes. You're looking out for them as people.

Katherine Studley: [00:47:05] Yes. And then know. So that's like the compliance side is working with the deliver fund. And then, you know, the industry portion is working with Queens of the Underworld. So I partnered with Romina Jordan. She was like a lifelong sex worker in Los Angeles, and now she's a mental health specialist for the industry because I have, you know, positioned myself as a hub for all things sex, work and spicy. Some things are out of my jurisdiction, and it's important that I have someone who is an expert in the space that I can pass people to if they are in a situation that I can't help them with.

Blake Oliver: [00:47:41] So I want to end on something just a little bit lighter. I have a.

Speaker4: [00:47:46] Think so I mean.

Blake Oliver: [00:47:46] That's it's important we address that. But I do have something lighter and I don't want to diminish what you just said because I think it's really important. But maybe, I don't know, maybe this will seem funny to you or not. But, you know, there was that meme going on. Was it last year, year before with, you know, the accountants of Instagram, the accountants of TikTok? And it's hilarious. It was like the funniest thing. Yeah, It's the joke is, you know, you're at a party and you're in a you're a spicy worker, you're in a sex worker. Like, what do you tell people when they ask you, What do you do for a living? And you just say, or if you don't want to talk? Actually, it wasn't even that guy wasn't even a sex worker. He just he just didn't want to tell people what he did for a living or something. Right.

Katherine Studley: [00:48:24] And then it became a trending sound that all sex workers were using.

Blake Oliver: [00:48:27] Got it. And it basically said like, just tell people you're an accountant. Nobody will ask any more questions. Yeah.

Speaker4: [00:48:31] Like, essentially it.

Katherine Studley: [00:48:32] Wants to hear any more about it. Shuts it down. Yeah. So we're the tax accountants for spicy accountants.

Blake Oliver: [00:48:37] Yeah. I just tell people I'm a podcaster, you know, I lead with that, right? Although now there's a now there's kind of a stigma against podcasters thanks to, you know, some, some podcasters. So that meme came out and then everybody, you know, a lot of people who aren't accountants started putting accountant in their profile. And that was code for I'm a sex worker. So as an accountant who helps sex workers for real as like, how do you distinguish between being a real accountant and not being a, you know, an accountant of Instagram?

Katherine Studley: [00:49:10] Yeah, well, my TikTok videos were getting banned when I first started because I was saying that I'm an accountant, but I'm like, No, I'm literally an accountant. Like, I'm helping accountants, but I'm an accountant. So that guess was like something I had to kind of work around. So I don't say that I'm an accountant on TikTok because I'll get banned.

Blake Oliver: [00:49:26] Another good reason to say you're a consultant.

Katherine Studley: [00:49:28] Exactly. Exactly. You know, there's definitely been some misunderstanding around what I do. And I am a tax accountant, not a spicy accountant. But that's something I've experienced on social media. Yeah.

Blake Oliver: [00:49:40] That's funny.

Katherine Studley: [00:49:41] Yeah, I have an onlyfans for tax tips, But again, misunderstanding and what's going on?

Speaker4: [00:49:46] I mean.

Blake Oliver: [00:49:47] I haven't gotten nobody's confused me for a sex worker yet, but I don't know, I guess maybe I just don't come across as like, I have an onlyfans account.

Speaker4: [00:49:55] I don't know, something for everyone. You could.

Jim Swiech: [00:49:57] You could do those feet pics that you were talking.

Speaker4: [00:49:58] About. There is something. Yeah. Right.

Blake Oliver: [00:50:01] With the, with the podcast microphone, something like that. You know there's there's an audience. Yeah. Oh asMr is big right. Yeah there's the.

Jim Swiech: [00:50:08] People for everyone. Yeah. We'll say.

Speaker4: [00:50:10] Right. Yes.

Katherine Studley: [00:50:11] I have met people from everyone everywhere. Everywhere doing everything and there is something, there is a niche for you. If you're interested we can talk after. I have some managers I can connect you to.

Speaker4: [00:50:21] Maybe so. All right. All right.

Blake Oliver: [00:50:22] Let's. Yeah, let's talk off tape. Well, Catherine, you know, it's been so wonderful talking to you. Where can people find you online? You know, tell us where to go if they want to, like, follow you and and learn more about what you do.

Katherine Studley: [00:50:36] Please follow me. So we're on Instagram with the underscore only underscore consultant, same handle for TikTok. You can visit us at our websites. The only consultant.com or Prisma, Tax.com.

Speaker4: [00:50:49] All right.

Blake Oliver: [00:50:50] So great talking with you. Thanks for joining me. Really appreciate it. And actually, you know, I never asked where where are you in the world?

Katherine Studley: [00:50:57] Good question. So like we're based out of Buffalo, so we're both from Buffalo and a lot of our staff is here. I'm currently living in Houston, and before that I was in Germany and DC, so I'm a traveling tax accountant, which is like one of the huge perks of being able to work completely remote.

Blake Oliver: [00:51:15] All right. Well, if either of you are ever in the Phenix area, please look me up. It would be great to connect with you in person.

Speaker4: [00:51:20] Excellent.

Katherine Studley: [00:51:20] We will do that. All right.

Blake Oliver: [00:51:21] Thanks, guys.

Speaker4: [00:51:22] Thanks, Blake, for having us.

Blake Oliver: [00:51:27] Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode and that you learned something new. And if you did, wouldn't it be nice to get some CPE credit for it? Well, I've got great news. My new app, Earmark CPE, offers free Naspa approved CPE credits for listening to podcasts, including this one. Visit Earmark cpcomm. To download the app, take a short quiz and get your CPE certificate. That's earmark cpcomm.