Earmark Podcast | Earn Free Accounting CPE

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Blake Oliver: [00:00:00] Are you an accountant with a continuing education requirement? You can earn free Nasba approved CPE for listening to this episode. Just visit earmarked app on your web browser, take a short quiz and get your certificate. You can also earn credits on the go, download the free earmark app from the App Store and earn CPE anytime, anywhere. Welcome to earmark I'm Blake Oliver. What do submarine oxygen levels have to do with solving the accounting talent shortage? Quite a lot actually. My guest today, Mark Steinhoff, is a Navy veteran who kept sailors alive by managing critical life support systems deep underwater. Now he applies that same life or death precision as an accountant, managing the accounting for a water utility while pursuing his CPA. The accounting profession has a net loss of about 70,000 accountants per year. Meanwhile, over 200,000 service members transition out of the military every year like Marc. That's a huge pool of talent. And if we could recruit just a small fraction of veterans into accounting, it could go a long way towards helping us turn things around in the profession. Marc, thanks for joining me today and sharing your story.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:01:12] Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Um, I reached out to Blake because, you know, I, I'm passionate about, you know, veterans and their success. Um, it's always been like, a personal mission for me to kind of help, uh, veterans transition out of the military, and it is quite the experience, you know, leaving the military. Um, it's a very unique environment. And not only just trying to, like, figure out what you want to do. Um, after college is a challenge, but also getting into business. It is a it can be a completely different world. Um, but there was surprisingly a lot of similarities. And I've shared, you know, those this with other veterans. Um, like, right when I got into college, you know, it was immediately like sharing that connection, you know, with the other veterans. And what we were going through was, you know, was super important to me. And since then I've, I've been passionate about helping veterans transition because I myself you know, I've experienced kind of like the hardships and the challenges of trying to find like a new home, a new career and kind of like what you, what you're going to do after something so different and, um, something that kind of puts you in these, these really, like high risk situations or these, you know, kind of like these, um, you know, big the military and, um, so, yeah, I'm very passionate about it. And I hope I can kind of, you know, help some people maybe. Or maybe this could reach a veteran, um, and show them, hey, accounting is a good career fit or business is a good career fit. Um, and, you know, now it's kind of the goal behind it.

Blake Oliver: [00:02:36] So help me understand this, Mark. Why has accounting been great for you as a veteran?

Mark Steinhoff: [00:02:42] Yeah. So I think, um, in the military, obviously everyone knows the military is very structured. Like you got that typical like hierarchy, chain of command, like everything you're told, everything what to do. Everything's a procedural compliance. You got to follow the rules, right? Like, we all kind of know that that's like how the military is structured. And, you know, you wear a uniform, you got to show up on time. And so accounting is very similar. Obviously in accounting there's a lot of rules. There's a lot of processes. There's a lot of guidelines. There's a lot of regulatory compliance. And when you come from the military that's that's all. You know you're used to just being told what to do, following the rules. And you're you know, you're generally kind of, you know, happy with that. So accounting is it was very similar. Um, and it was actually very surprising for me because when I was getting out and deciding, like what I wanted to do, I initially thought finance. I thought because I, you know, read some stock market books that I was going to like, um, finance. I wanted to learn about stocks. But then I took my first accounting class, and that's where I was like, wow, this is, uh, this is very familiar. Um, you know, they're talking about processes. They're talking about how everything kind of works together. You know, you're seeing like, you know, how a whole company can kind of, you know, it all is just one big process. And that's accounting as you. You're just learning the business. And so it's very, um, similar actually, um, in ways to the military that people wouldn't expect.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:04:01] And that's why I think, you know, I've done, you know, really well, transitioning is just because it felt comfortable. And if anything, I felt like I was able to, you know, exceed, you know, a little bit better than my peers was just because I came from a different background and I had a little bit of different thought process about things. But yeah. So, um, it's, it's there's a lot of similarities, uh, that, you know, you just wouldn't expect, you know, just high level. And I think that's also one of the big things about, you know, this like cloudiness of like, you know, veterans in business because a lot of organizations may have never had a veteran. They may have never hired a veteran, or maybe they just don't know how their particular experience, um, translates. Right. Because it's much different. Like for me, I worked on a submarine, and if you looked at my resume, you'd be like, how do I take this, you know, and to apply it to, like, you know, my business needs and it could be a hard story to translate. And I think sometimes, um, it could be beneficial if, you know, I believe in giving veterans a chance, you know, and there's a lot that, you know, I think you could benefit from, you know, veterans in which we found, you know, in statistics, veterans hiring veterans, um, in the workplace, you know, veterans do well. And they, um, and they could be a good asset for companies.

Blake Oliver: [00:05:18] So I've heard this before, that, uh, after you come out of the military, you have all these skills that you learned in the military leadership, um, you know, processes, procedures. But turning that into something in the private sector can be a real challenge because employers, people hiring don't necessarily see the correlation. They don't see that these are transferable kind of skills. So take me back to your time on on the submarine. What were you doing there?

Mark Steinhoff: [00:05:51] Yeah. So just kind of go backwards. Um, after high school, I kind of, you know, typical. Didn't know what I wanted to do, so I thought it was a good idea to walk down to the recruiter's office, and, uh, next thing you know, um, you know, I was on a submarine. Um, submarine service is actually very unique. You have to volunteer. They can't just force you to be on a submarine because, you know, no one really wants to be stuck in a steel tube hundreds of feet under the ocean. So, you know, I thought it'd be really interesting because I wasn't much of, like, you know, wanting to be boots on the ground combat. I, you know, I wanted to do something at the time I thought would translate outside of the military. I was thinking, okay, well, how can I take this military experience, you know, to school and stuff and translate it to the to the outside world. So, you know, I ended up joining, um, went to boot camp, and then I went to submarine school, and submarine school is, uh, it's actually a very unique process. Um, because submarines are just so technical, they actually sometimes will make you, um, spend a whole extra year on top just to just to learn. So instead of a four year contract, which is very traditional and military, you actually sometimes are obligated to a five year, 5 or 6 year contract depending on your job. So I spent my first year in, um, Groton, Connecticut, which is like the submarine capital. And there I went through basic enlistment submarine school, where they teach you basically how submarines work.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:07:07] They expose you to like these high risk trainers where they put you in like a room where like, pipes burst and it just floods the entire room. And you have to with a small group, you know, you have to, you know, make patches and kind of stop the flooding. And they put you in these, like, escape, uh, escape trainers where you actually, uh, hatch will open underneath water and you have to escape from like, a 60 foot like tower, basically, and go to the surface to kind of simulate, you know, escaping from a submarine and, um, just, you know, it was just really technical experience. And then from there, I went to my first boat. You're assigned like a, um, a submarine, right. And there's different types of classes of submarines. There's fast attack submarines, which are the ones, you know, who go hunt and kind of, you know, I don't know if you've seen the movie Hunter killer with Gerard Butler. Um, it's a good movie, but it's, uh, it's kind of like that. They kind of go, you know, they do cool missions. And then there's the ballistic missile submarines, which are they kind of go hide, and they have like the bigger style missiles that, you know, you kind of know what I'm talking about. Um, that kind of, uh, is a nuclear strategic deterrence, uh, kind of part of the military. And so I went to the USS Alabama, which if you've ever seen the movie Crimson Tide with Denzel Washington, you ever seen that? Um.

Blake Oliver: [00:08:26] Yeah, it's been a while. I love that movie.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:08:28] But that's the boat. Actually, I was on. I was on the USS Alabama. It looks a little different, I'll tell you that. But, um. Yeah, I was, so I got to my, uh, the USS Alabama, which is an Ohio class submarine. And there I was a, it's called a machinist mate auxiliary. So I worked on all the habitability systems that essentially kept us alive underneath the ocean because we are submerged in a still can underwater. Um, we need to be able to survive in that environment. So we need to have breathable air. So we need to be able to create oxygen. We need to be able to remove, uh, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide, which in all these, you know, things that could, uh, make the air kind of, you know, contaminated. And then I worked on all of our, like, our drinking water, made sure we had clean drinking water, made sure we had plumbing, um, worked on hydraulics, air refrigeration, basically everything that was, like, auxiliary, um, that kept the ship going. Um, it was a extremely intense job. And it really, you know, it brings you to your brink, um, especially on a submarine. Um, most of our submarines, they're aging. Um, the submarine I was on was actually commissioned in 1985. So it was over 30 years old and, you know, spending 30 years, uh, under the water. It, you know, has some wear and tear. So there's a lot of maintenance, you know, and there's a lot of, you know, you're underwater in a pipe. You know, uh, starts to leak underwater. You know, it can be very, um, scary. So. Yeah, that's what I did. Yeah. Um, I worked basically.

Blake Oliver: [00:10:01] It's literally, literally life and death.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:10:04] Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, instead of a, you know, like combat, like you're fighting the ocean, you know, it's because, like, you know, space, right? You're in a vacuum, right? But under the water, it's opposite. You're in a pressure. Right. The pressure's you know, exerting in. So that's it's kind of just a unique environment. But it's similar. Right. You're fighting you know, the environment to stay underwater. And so that was my job, you know, was to make sure that we kept underwater. Um, there's a lot of different jobs on the boat. And you kind of learn you kind of learn everything when you get there. But. Yeah. So that's what. That's what my job was. I was a submarine mechanic. Um, I, I did four Before deployments, I spent about a total year of my life completely submerged underwater. Throughout that, you know, four years did a lot of shipyard time. You know, you tear apart the boat, um, completely put it back. So a lot of my experience was mostly kind of like engineering. Um, it was kind of like what you'd call, like an engineering maintenance technician, like, um, our maintenance planning or similar things like that. And, you know, it was it was really interesting. I learned a lot, um, about engineering and it's kind of like what I thought I was, you know, I thought I might want to do. Um, getting out. But I couldn't take more than calculus in math. But, yeah, it was, uh, it was a really super technical job. Um, I could tell you a lot of stories, too, um, about it. Um, I spent a lot of time under the ocean, and, uh. Yeah, it was, you know.

Blake Oliver: [00:11:31] So how does what you were doing underwater on the submarine with all this maintenance. How did that translate into what you do as an accountant? What are the what are the similarities?

Mark Steinhoff: [00:11:44] Yeah. So the job I did on the boat, it like dealt with a lot of quality assurance. So you know, the it basically um, it's almost similar to like the regulatory compliance aspect. Right. Because submarines like everything you touch on the boat, if you want to take a boat off, right, you have to document it. You know, there's, you know, there's procedures you have to follow. And so that was like was the first thing I noticed when I started taking accounting classes. I like the documentation. The, you know, because that's, you know, what we do as accountants, right? We, you know, document the business transactions and eventually turn that into financial statements. But I was able because it was just the similarity of that, you know, the technical, you know, having to, you know, rely on like that regulatory compliance, the rules, you know, like we got to know the rules, the attention to detail. Right? We all know attention to detail is a good quality, um, to have as an accountant. Um, those all really helped me. Uh, it really helped me succeed. Because those are things that are just, you know, you have to learn over years, right? I mean, I'm sure you you you learned that as an accountant, like, you know, years, you know, if you're an audit, you know, just that kind of being, uh, granular like that. Um, yeah.

Blake Oliver: [00:12:54] It's a it's a mentality. Right? It's a it's a way of working where you're always documenting. You're looking for a process. If there isn't one, you're documenting the process. You're backing up everything you're doing. Very rigorous.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:13:07] Yeah. Yeah. So that was the first thing I noticed when I took that first accounting class. I was like, you know, I was like, wow, this is, you know, on the boat. Um, you're working like the, um, the ships working as a whole, like, so I worked in an auxiliary mechanic, but I was working with every single division on the boat, so, like what? I noticed how that translated, um, was, like, in accounting, you know, you're working with different departments because you need information, right? It was the same kind of principle on the boat. Um, so a lot of that was just, you know, the the technical side of just having, you know, to follow the rules. Help me because, you know, the technical research, like everything you worked on the boat, you had to do technical research to kind of, you know, figure out, okay, well, how do I record this or how do I document this in accordance with what, you know, the rules of the military, which is the same thing with GAAP, right? You you want to figure out how to, you know, classify something or, you know, you go to ASC, you know, something, right? Or accounting standard. So I think that's what really kind of just, you know, it's like I have this whole different, um, world that just was like so very similar. And, and maybe it was just the different names for things. Right. Um, but I think that's, you know, that's that's why, you know, I was able to just, you know, really pick off, uh, a really transfer very well into accounting was just because, you know, like I said, on the surface, you would think that there's nothing similar to being on a submarine, but in reality, there's just there's so much, uh, similar to, um, to accounting.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:14:33] And I've actually met only one other person who did the same exact job I did on a submarine. And he works at Deloitte, actually. And he, I, you know, I ended up getting to talk to him more. And, you know, it was very interesting because he's like, I've never met, you know, not a lot of people who go from that to accounting. So yeah, that's just like I said, that's how I just I want to get more people to know that, you know, they can take that skills and they could get into business. They could, you know, maybe it's a different world, but, you know, they could learn it. You know, you could learn, you know, how to be on a ship. You can learn how to be on a carrier or in the army, you know, or any branch. Right. You know, I think there's this confidence thing, too. It's like it's this different world. But, you know, you could do it and you could show people you know, too. So yeah, there's a lot of similarities. Um, surprisingly a lot.

Blake Oliver: [00:15:22] Yeah. If you can follow all the processes, uh, in the, in the military, there's a lot of them, there's a lot of documentation. There's a there's a guidebook for everything. Right? Yes. Um, what do they call that? I guess every branch has its own names, but, you know, there's a manual for everything you do.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:15:38] Yeah. Like so we would have, like, you know, like ship systems manuals. You're going to have, like, SOPs, like ships, operating procedures. You're going to have, you know, everything is procedural, right? So that's also true in accounting. You know, like there's just procedures. There's, you know, like you want to close the books, right? You got to do it. You got to have a checklist. You know, you got to cross off things. You got to make sure I did this right. Um, so that also was just, you know, very, um, translatable was that people who, like, are used to that procedural environment. They'll also do well in like, you know, maybe that technical business aspect, compliance, regulatory compliance, you know, because it's just a different type of rule that you're following.

Blake Oliver: [00:16:18] In my experience, almost all the failures that I've heard about or seen in accounting or finance, it comes from people not following procedures, internal controls falling apart, people not knowing what the procedure is. So like that, I really see a lot of parallels there with internal controls and procedures in what you were doing. Um, I'm curious. Like, you know, it's very little margin for error when you're dealing with life support systems on the on the sub. How did, uh, like, did you ever have an experience where the procedure saved the day?

Mark Steinhoff: [00:16:59] Yeah. I mean, the process. Yeah. Yeah. On a sub, it's very rigorous. Like, if you don't use the procedure, um, you know, you can get in a lot of trouble, right? So the procedures are like, you have to use them. Like, it's not really optional on a sub, like, you have to, you know, use a procedure. You have to check every single box. Right? Of course. Yeah. Because everything is so technical on a submarine that like, if you were to deviate from a procedure, you could you could cost the entire ship's life. Like, there's so much responsibility on a sub because the things you're working on. Right. They could, you know, they could. They could hurt all of us. They could hurt the ship. Um, so the procedural compliance is like, it's, um, it's almost necessary. And they have processes in place where, like, okay, well, if the procedure doesn't work right, you need to route this up to the chain of command like you need to, you know, you have to if there's a deviance or something that the procedure doesn't work right. There's no procedure is perfect. Well, you know, you could route that up to like, you know, your officer and it goes up to the department head and it goes even up to the the commanding officer of the ship.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:18:00] So the procedures are like, yeah, you, you you have to use that. And I think that's also, you know, could help with that as like, um, you know, what you're saying is, you know, procedural compliance because when you, when you're on a ship where there's no room for error, right? When you are in an environment where there can't be mistakes and submarines are actually known for, um, this kind of, uh, this rigorous, rigorous quality assurance. Right. Where? Mistakes. There's no options for mistakes, right? The last submarine, the US submarine to sink, was actually in 1968 because they developed this program called Subsafe. And it's so rigorous, and it is absolutely miserable because the level of compliance, the auditing that you go through, you go through inspections. And that also kind of led to a really like kind of enjoyed auditing. But yeah, those built in kind of processes, you know, they can you know, they ensure you know where you won't make mistakes because you, you have the, for example, a two party system. Right. That's one thing I kind of noticed in accounting is in on submarines. We had a two party check. Right. So if one person wanted to go do work, they would go, um, they would. It's called, you know, through independent verification to or independent, kind of like an auditing.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:19:09] Right. They would go independently work on it, and then you couldn't have the other person kind of near you, and then they would kind of independently do it, and then it would kind of be that independent kind of verification system, which you see. Right. Like in auditing. Um, and yeah. And it works because when you have one or if you have like one person do it and the other person kind of just blindly trusts, right? You you're like, oh yeah, first person did it right. It must be good, right? Then you get cracks where you could make, you know, and I've noticed the same thing in accounting. It's like you can mess up on like your reconciliations, you know, like you can make a you can make mistakes with money. It's the same. It's the same. It's the same principles. Yeah. So, um, I think there's a lot of similarities that could be adopted to, you know, that could help accounting is, you know, um, you know, that that type of, uh, you know, there's, there's things that can help, but it also could. Yeah, it could be uncomfortable, too, because I don't think everyone wants to work to that level of stress. So.

Blake Oliver: [00:20:07] Well yeah, it's right. The the controls we put in place in accounting should be reasonable given the risk. And in a sub the risk is very high. So there's really really strong internal controls and processes and separation. Well, this reminds me of separation of duties also in accounting. Yeah, right. Having two people work on something independently or not do the same thing. Um, wow. So lots of. Yeah, lots of parallels there. Um, and I could see how, like, especially as a controller, it would be really helpful to have this kind of background. So tell me about what you're doing now and, and, and like, how, like how this all ties together.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:20:50] Yeah. So, um, I was kind of figuring what I was gonna do because I did a double major, so I was doing the finance and accounting, but I really was shifting more towards accounting because it just, it really felt more natural to me. And I liked the rules and the compliance. So right out of college, I actually my first job was at a small private equity firm here in like Southlake, Texas. And uh, I really enjoyed like, private equity accounting. I was doing kind of like a partnerships. So it was just a lot of like, you know, um, forming the partnerships they would that would raise money, and then they would eventually, you know, send it to the Dil and kind of like managing like the investments. Um, I spent two years there. It was like I said, it was a lot of partnership accounting, um, managing the distributions. I'm kind of. You're kind of, uh, been kind of more exposed to that. But it was, you know, that's, um, it actually was it was very fun because I also used a little bit of like my finance degree, but I, uh, I did really well because I noticed first it was like the technical research. Right? Um, in the private equity, we'd have, like, the operating agreements, um, the PPM. So you're following that. And I really enjoyed it. And I kind of just, you know, really, um, kind of excelled in that role. Um, and then from there, I spent two years there, and I was kind of just trying to find like, okay, well, in accounting, you know, it is like, very like to, like, rise in accounting. It's like, well, you got to get your CPA. You kind of have to like, follow this like ladder, right.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:22:10] If you, you know, kind of like especially the standards like, you know, you go into audit, you go into that Big Four. And, uh, I kind of had, you know, I was already behind the curve, right? I spent five years in the military, so I was kind of just like, well, and I wanted to be more in an operational environment, too. I thought that that's where I could kind of, you know, show kind of like, you know, my skill set and kind of just show my value. So I now I'm at a, um, it's a petroleum company in hole. Um, but they do own, like, a water company, so they like me a lot because there's not many accountants, you know, who have worked on, like, you know, water systems, which, you know, from a submarine, right? That was like my whole life, you know. I could tell you how, like, a pump works. I could tell you how the valves and all that and, like, you know, the. So kind of like having that background. I was just trying to find something to like. Well, how can I take this military background, right. And then also kind of like translate into accounting. Right. And um, so that's how I kind of landed the current place I am. And uh, I kind of do like, um, a little bit of mini controller work. I basically managed like all the just the accounting operations of the water company. You know, it's a small it's a small business, uh, most of the operations in West Texas. So I don't know if you know much about West Texas, but a little bit kind of out there.

Blake Oliver: [00:23:31] Um, is out there. I know there's there's not too much out in West Texas.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:23:34] Yeah.

Blake Oliver: [00:23:35] A lot of space.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:23:36] Yeah, a lot of space. So the water is not it's non-drinking water. So it's not like safe to drink. So it's it's basically, uh, water that you would see like power plants use, um, oil and gas would use like for, you know, fracking water rights. They use that for fracking. They use water, um, small ranchers, farmers. It just kind of like more commercial use water. And then I do a little bit, um, for like some real estate we own. And then also just kind of like I'm learning the oil and gas side, but it's, it's different because it's more operations. And that's also kind of going back to like the whole veteran thing. I think that like when one of the challenges I was kind of facing was like, as a veteran, it's like, well, I got all this experience right. And it's so much different. But also like in accounting, it's like, you know, the operational side I thought was something that a lot of veterans could, you know, do well in because there is this like, you know, kind of different career set and accounting. It's like, okay, well do you go the financial reporting kind of career path. Right. Big Four audit. You know, but there's also a lot of roles, you know, like smaller companies where you can get more into, like managerial accounting that I think, um, is a little bit different. It seems like it's like almost like different than the normal pipeline. It's like if you go this route, it's kind of like a little bit different. I don't, I don't know why. Maybe you could you have more insight into that. But um, my experience.

Blake Oliver: [00:24:53] Well yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you go straight from high school into college, you major in accounting. The traditional pathway is go work in audit at a big accounting firm, or maybe go work in tax. It's kind of those two pathways. And it's only after doing one of those two that most people go into industry. Yeah, but, you know, you went into the military and and then you came out and you go into industry. It gives you I think it probably gives you a big advantage because you've been in the chain of command. You have operationally, you know, been working in a in, you know, it's the military, but it operates in a lot of ways, like a business with a hierarchy. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:25:34] I think that was um, I think that was one thing, I think, where veterans could, like, they could succeed in because maybe you maybe you don't have that, um, technical accounting experience yet. Right? Maybe you don't like, have that like, um, like what you would need, like, in, like, financial reporting, like, you know, to be a CPA, right? You need to have that like technical experience. Right. Because financial reporting and GAAP. Right. But you could have a good understanding of how operations work. You know, the story. Yes. The story behind the numbers.

Blake Oliver: [00:26:03] And yeah.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:26:04] I think that's like kind of like that managerial kind accounting career could be good for a lot of like veterans because you could help the business, you know, make better decisions because you do come from like that procedural process, um, improvement kind of driven environment where I think, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of people could do well in that kind of career, maybe, maybe an untraditional career path, you know, for maybe more veterans.

Blake Oliver: [00:26:32] How did you get the accounting education? Did you do that while you were in the military? Did you do that after? How did you, like get enough knowledge to get this role?

Mark Steinhoff: [00:26:42] Yeah. So it was a very unique um, so I was actually getting out of the military in 2020. So it was during the it was during the pandemic. I was actually getting out June of 2020. And the pandemic actually happened with March was when the lockdowns happened. So I had just kind of started talking with like a recruiter. And I was actually I was going to do something completely different. I was trying to find jobs that were related to what I was doing in the military, kind of like maintenance, planning, QA. And then the pandemic happened, and the recruiter called me on the phone and he was like, look, you know, they thought at the time, you know, jobs might be hard to kind of find, right? So I didn't really know what I was going to do. So I thought, okay, well, maybe this is a good time to go back to school. And so I was in, um, taps. It's actually it's called the Transition Assistance Program. It's like directed by Congress, basically, where every single veteran has to take this class to kind of teach you basic resume skills, how to, like, find a job when you're when you're getting out. And during that, they, um, they teach you about the GI Bill, like, you know how to use your GI bill because that's, like, that's the greatest perk of, you know, serving, right, is that you get this GI Bill and it pays for your college.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:27:49] And so I found out, like TCU, Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, Texas, they were what's called a yellow Ribbon school. So most of the GI Bill, this is like something I was passionate about helping veterans. Right. Use their the GI Bill because, you know, it's this great resource, right? That you get. It's taxpayer money, but it's, you know, you deserve it, right? You served and this is a benefit that you get and it pays for your education. And there's this thing called the Yellow Ribbon Act, which basically the VA has a cap where basically most of the time they'll pay for just public schools. But the yellow ribbon is kind of like where if you the school basically makes a deal with the VA where they'll split the difference. Right. So if it goes over the cap, basically the school will cover 50% and the VA will cover 50%. So when I realized that, I was like, I knew TCU was a really great business school. It's something I've always, you know, wanted to go being from like the DFW area, but I just never I could never afford it. You know, it's a the tuition is about $50,000 a year. And it was just a good opportunity. And I was like, well, this is something I really want to do.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:28:55] I want to, you know, I want to take this military experience and I want to get a good business degree. I want to, you know, I want to get a good job. Um, and so that's kind of like how I landed into, you know, I going back to TCU and I went as a full time student. You know, it is. You can, um, go back to school as a, um, when you're active duty and they'll give you, like, tuition assistance and stuff, and, um, but it's kind of hard. You most of the time you'll kind of have to take, um, more online classes. Or maybe you take an online accounting program. So, um, it was nice that I was able to just go full time. You get the housing allowance, which is nice. They kind of pay you a little like a stipend to kind of, you know, pay your rent and kind of get you through college. They pay for your books and they pay for your tuition. So I, I'm very thankful for, um, the G.I. Bill. Um, and I try to get other veterans to know, hey, you could you could use this program to kind of get you into business. It would give you a little like, maybe you'll be kind of broke college student for a couple years, but it'll help you.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:29:52] And it's hard. You know, that was a challenge too, is you know, you're not you kind of have to make a sacrifice. You know, three years, I, I knew, like, okay, I'm just going to get through the school. I'm going to treat it like a full time program, like, this is my full time job. And I took it serious, like I took it, you know, I took it much different, um, than a lot of the, you know, college is very different right now. It's a very different environment. I'll say that, especially when you're coming back, um, after being out of school for six years, I graduated in 2014 and going back to school in 2020, especially with the pandemic generation Z, you know, um, there's different culture shifts and there's different, um, there's different, uh, there's just a difference in college than when I was in school. But it was such a great experience, and TCU was a really good school that I'm, I'm extremely thankful for. Um, they got a great business school. They got a good accounting program. It's very small. They got their more well known for their corporate finance, which I did that too. And uh, yeah, it was, it was it was a good education. I did that for full time. Graduated in 2023 and um, December of 2023, and I had already interned at um Trinity for a Trinity investors like a small private equity firm for a year.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:31:05] And it was not a normal internship because I had the military experience that I kind of was able to work at, like kind of like the staff accountant role pretty quick and get like more experience. And, um, from there, I kind of worked another year after graduating and then, um, at that point, um, I was trying to kind of like, okay, well, like, you know, I knew that. Okay, I need to get my CPA. I there's this ladder. I need to kind of rise in accounting or I need to get my CPA to kind of, you know, to move forward. Um, but I also was like, well, how can I, again, how can I leverage my military experience? And I was like, well, I know there's got to be operational roles where maybe they'll like my unique, you know, background. And I thought like water utility, um, oil and gas. It was very interesting because, you know, you kind of can understand how the, the engineering side, um, works with it because unlike private equity, working with finance people, now I'm working with engineers, which is exactly where I'm 360. Back to being on a submarine, being working with engineers, which I don't know if you've had a lot of experience working with engineers. They're a unique type of people.

Blake Oliver: [00:32:10] Oh, yeah. Uh, one of my best friends is an engineer. I tend to get along with them really well. Um, I like the way engineers think.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:32:18] Exactly. Yeah.

Blake Oliver: [00:32:20] So you you got a bachelor's in accounting?

Mark Steinhoff: [00:32:23] Yeah. So I got my. I just did the double major of bachelor's in the finance and accounting, and now I'm.

Blake Oliver: [00:32:27] In finance.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:32:28] And I'm going back right now. Um, I did kind of, like, a little different. I, I'm going to do the MBA instead of doing the master's in accounting. So I thought like, well, I'm already going to study for the CPA, right. And I thought the MBA would just be a little bit more versatile. Um, like my long term career, if I wanted to kind of get out of accounting and get more into, like, you know, management roles or kind of comptroller or, you know, kind of like, um, working a little bit more with outside of accounting. Um, but it also is going to probably kind of hurt me because I'm not going to get kind of like that. Technical studies that might help me for the CPA. So I'm going to have to study a little bit harder for the CPA.

Blake Oliver: [00:33:05] Yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't worry about it too much. Um, I never took any of the classes that you would take in a masters of accounting. I didn't do that myself as a career changer. I just went back and got the required credits in California, and the exam prep course that I took did fine, preparing me with all the material. Very. I actually found that very little of the material on the exam was outside of the undergraduate courses I took.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:33:33] So yeah, I guess that's the whole kind of argument right now. Is the CPA, right? Because I know, um, I talked a lot about that. It's like, well, do you need the Masters? Right. To kind of, you know, take the CPA because that's where kind of like the boat I was in or I got this four year degree, right. And I'm like, oh, I got the military. And I was like, oh, wow, I gotta go back for the Masters now because I need the 150 hours. Um, so that's kind of like right now where I'm trying to pursue because I want to get the CPA because everyone knows it unlocks doors and it's just good to get. But it is hard that you have to go.

Blake Oliver: [00:34:07] You're going to get your MBA, and that'll give you enough credits to meet that 150 hour requirement in Texas.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:34:14] Yeah, yeah.

Blake Oliver: [00:34:16] Yeah.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:34:16] Open Texas is a nice school to switch.

Blake Oliver: [00:34:20] Yes. Uh, you know, I'm hear rumors that they are making moves to to go back to 120, uh, or to offer that option. Just the bachelor's degree would be great, wouldn't it? Because the GI Bill doesn't pay for the masters or does it?

Mark Steinhoff: [00:34:35] Um, so they pay for my undergraduate. I had a little bit left, um, because you get 36 months, and I just, I guess I just somehow didn't use all of it. Um, in my undergraduate, I'm using a little bit, but Texas is, um, has this other program called the Hazelwood Act. So basically it gives you another 36 months of tuition free education, but it has to be at a public school. So I'm going to a school, University of Texas, Dallas. It's a University of Texas school. Um, and I'm going to and I'm able to luckily, I've been grateful, right, to have more benefits by the state level now instead of the federal level to pay for my school. So I'm and I'm very thankful for that. Um, state and the federal government are offering veterans again, these opportunities that, you know, a lot of veterans don't know about, too. Um, that's one thing I try to, you know, help veterans. Uh, there's so many benefits that you could use for serving that, you know, to get your, you know, your bachelor's degree and your master's, um, for free because it is very expensive right now, um, with the cost of education to go back to school. Yeah. Um, and that could be a challenge to, um, you know.

Blake Oliver: [00:35:44] So you're going to sit for the CPA exam in Texas. Is that the plan?

Mark Steinhoff: [00:35:47] Yes. Yeah, yeah. So right now I'm kind of I'm doing it a little bit different than a lot of people have kind of told me, but I'm, I'm hitting the NBA kind of harder in the, the front load kind of just get the hours right. Um, just because also the lifestyle factor too, of like getting your bachelor's degree and then going back to school, you know, or going to your personal life, too. I just got married. Um, kind of.

Blake Oliver: [00:36:07] Congrats.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:36:08] Thank you. Thank you. And just, you know, that's the hard part, too, is, you know, you have to get this degree. And sometimes it's hard to work into your personal life, right? Um, yeah. Right now it's hard. And getting off work, having to spend two hours, you know, studying. But I know that it will be worth it. Um, it kind of, you know, just the temporary sacrifice, but. Yeah. So I'm going to hit the NBA hard for just, like, this first year. Um, get the hours and then kind of then turn the switch once I get the 150 hours and kind of crash study, because I think I could, you know, get a study for the CPA kind of pretty fast and then kind of finish the MBA on the back end because the program, I'm able to kind of do it within seven years, so or six years. Um, so kind of like that was kind of my strategy, a little bit different maybe. Um, but I thought that would kind of help me long term.

Blake Oliver: [00:37:00] Talk to me about closing the books at this water company. Is it similar to the checklist you were going through as a submarine mechanic?

Mark Steinhoff: [00:37:15] Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's very similar. Um, you know, it's just like the submarine. You know, you have, like, a checklist. Everything you do every month, you're, you know, you're going through a checklist like, oh, I gotta inspect this, this piece of equipment every month, right? Or every quarter. Right. I got to do this type of maintenance, like on a submarine. How we actually break it down as to like we have monthly. We have quarterly. We have annually. Right. And there's these little check marks that you have to do. Right. So obviously like every month I know like we kind of keep my job. We kind of have like a very structured, oh, and again in the month we do this and that. So, you know, to close the books every month. Right. So it's very similar. Yeah. And, uh, you know, I'm it's nice because oil and gas is very, um, it's the same thing, kind of like over and over again. Right? It's there's not much variance to like private equity where, you know, there's different deals going on. You know, it's also very affected by, um, the, um, by the interest rates and by the Federal Reserve and kind of stuff like that. Um, so it is interesting because now it's I'm more in like a stable kind of close the books every month. So yeah. Yeah. And it kind of goes back. It's actually surprisingly similar because on the boat we had, like I said, monthlies, we had you know, it's, you know, you know, every month you got to do the same thing. And accounting, it's very similar. You know, it's the you know, it's redundancy, but it's to ensure that, you know, the business is, you know, meeting what it needs to do. And that's usually a monthly, maybe a quarterly or, you know, a process. It's a process at the end of the day, right?

Blake Oliver: [00:38:45] So when you got to the submarine, all those processes were handed to you and you just had to follow them. But at a small company or an accounting department, often, like there might not be processes, you know, documented, like so how much in your job like do you get to design them?

Mark Steinhoff: [00:39:04] Yeah, yeah. So that's a great point because in the military. Right. Um, because it's somewhere in the nature of submarine, there's no kind of room for that error. Right. So, you know, they've they got these documents that are these processes have been around for a really long time. And um, but like in a small company that maybe there isn't processes, maybe there's, there's no procedural procedures in place. Maybe that's that is one of the challenges that I think, you know, maybe it could be more like a small business, right? Versus if you're like a larger organization. Right? I'm sure that there's probably like a lot of more procedures in place. But, um, I think that's maybe one of the things that kind of helped me. Um, especially I know my last job, right. It was a smaller company, and we didn't really have a lot of those procedures in place, but kind of coming from that military environment, that's something I was able to do because I could write a procedure, I could kind of train people, I could kind of create those processes, and I was able to do that kind of like in my last job a lot, because we didn't really have some procedures in place. There was new things going on. It was growing really fast. Um, so yeah, I think that that's that's something that's like, you know, just I don't it's just a skill set that I think I was, you know, a tool in my bag that I was able to use because I don't think sometimes you always have that, um, or maybe someone doesn't know how to.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:40:13] Or maybe we just don't have that process. And yet as accountants, we kind of have to create that, especially in a small business. Um, and maybe the management doesn't, you know, they don't know the accounting side to kind of like, hey, this is what you need to do for accounting. You kind of have to figure that out on your own. And maybe that's where you have to do research. Maybe that's where you have to kind of learn on your own. And I think that is also something that's important in accounting is maybe all the answers won't always be there for you. Maybe there's not. You can't just go ask your boss. Always with the answer. You kind of sometimes have to figure it on your own. And you need to have that technical research and accounting, which is super important. You need to be able to maybe go read an accounting standard to give you an understanding of, you know, where you could start. And so that's similar to the military. You know, we if we had a problem and there wasn't a procedure for it, we need to go to the tech manual. We needed to go to the SSM. We needed to write our own procedure. And then, you know, you get management to kind of buy off on it. And maybe you you create your own process. So that could be like definitely something a small business that I think, you know, is definitely there.

Blake Oliver: [00:41:22] Do you have any advice for veterans who want to get into accounting like you?

Mark Steinhoff: [00:41:27] I think it's a leap of faith. You know, I think it's when you're when you're in the military, it's it's and you're getting out. It's a big challenge because you're just like, it's just this whole different world. And, you know, the military gives 18 year olds more responsibility than like, any jobs they'll give an 18 year old. Like you'll be on a helicopter, like working on, like, the most technical equipment. Like they put me on a submarine, you know, working on things that were just like, you know, costly, you know. You doing work that, you know, where other lives, you know, are at risk. And that's the military, you know. They're giving 18 year olds that responsibility. And my biggest thing was for veterans. And I just try to, you know, is that if you could do that right, you could do this, you know, you could you know, it's it's and I think I've met a lot of people, um, when they get out, they don't know what to do. And they kind of just like, they, they, they, they don't take that experience. They don't take that, you know, that high level of, um, the high level environment they worked in and kind of like try to translate it to, you know, business or a different engineering because it's hard, you know, it's hard.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:42:29] You know, it's no one there's no there's no guidebook, you know, that tells you when you're getting out. And I met other veterans and I, you know, I just networked with other veterans. I would say, you know, talk to other veterans, you know, see what they're doing, you know, at the schools. Like most schools have like a veteran like organization, like I was in TCU, I was in like veterans in business and entrepreneurship. I just like networked with other veterans. I just learned by, like, other people. And I just took that risk. I just told myself like, well, if I could do this right, like if I could be on a submarine or if you could be on a ship, or you could be, you know, in the Army, you could be in the Marines, you could be in the Air Force. Right? You know, you could you could succeed in this environment. And maybe you're going to get there and maybe no one's going to kind of know that, hey, you did all this, right? Which is okay. You don't need you don't need anyone to kind of like, you know, give you a pat on the back because you're in the military. Right? But just just keep your, you know, that you could you could, you could rise to the challenge, right, of a different environment and maybe your years behind the curve like I was.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:43:25] Maybe you're 24 going back to school with a bunch of 18 year olds. But, um, don't let that stop you. You know what I'm saying? You did all that. You served your country. You did something hard, you know? And, you know, keep rising, you know, keep rising. The challenge. And that's where I've kind of just been with the mindset, you know, like, I put all my eggs in this basket to go back to school, and I want to keep just, you know, I want to get my CPA. I want to keep rising in, um, accounting. And I like accounting. Um, it is there is a lot of different personalities I've seen, um, where you come from, the military too. Um, you kind of like accounting is like, you know, the typical accounting. You know, it's like. It's like not the most people person. Right. Um, but, you know, I love accounting, I love I. So I think yeah. So I think the kind of like that. Just take the leap of faith, believe in yourself. And, um, you know, I know it's a different environment, but, um, if you can succeed in that, this is. You'd be surprised how similar it is.

Blake Oliver: [00:44:23] I think that's great advice, Mark. And, uh, I think you're doing great. Thank you. And we're lucky. We're lucky as a profession to have you in it, and I hope that we get more veterans entering the accounting profession. I hope those listening will consider it. It's a great place to be and there's so much demand for accountants. Like I mentioned at the beginning, we've got a shortage of tens of thousands of accountants every year. Um, we're not we're not putting out enough of them via the traditional education college pathway. So we need more veterans. And I think that, like, attitude, uh, was what's going to help you succeed, Mark, because a lot of success in accounting is simply showing up and just putting your best effort forward every single day. And from what I know about veterans, they're really good at doing that.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:45:11] Yeah, that's what they tell you. In the military. They say, you know, um, you know, say you'll be one of the best sailors if you just do two things. You show up on time and you show up in the right uniform, and that's that's most of it. Um, but I think that with the way accounting is changing, too, with technology. Right. And that accounting is changing from that kind of like that old regulatory compliance environment to accountants are now expected to be able to like take data and kind of like, you know, translate it. Right. And that's also like we're I think, you know, veterans could exceed and they would be interested in this role because I thought, okay, well it's just number crunching, right. And maybe sometimes it is, but maybe you got to kind of find the right fit. But there's a lot of opportunities for you in business. You know, there's business owners that would like a person who could take those numbers, right, and be able to have the experience to like, translate that into, like, you know, easy, you know, easy lingo which are like, that would be in the military, you know, very easy to understand and digestible. And, um, I think that that with the environment we're in, I think that, you know, veterans would, you know, really they would like accounting. Um, that they would think this is actually a good fit for them if they just kind of, you know, they're open, they're open minded to it. And I know the the thought process of accounting, they sit behind a desk. Um, you know, they just do due taxes. But no, there's much more to accounting. Accounting. There's a lot of opportunities. You know, it's you can you can make a different path to. And that's what I'm trying to do. That's what I've tried to to do. I've tried to forge my own path, kind of like an unconventional way, but hoping others can, you know, try to do the same.

Blake Oliver: [00:46:44] That's a great point, right? Uh, accounting used to be where we had to crunch all the numbers ourselves, but now it's actually very much like a lot of jobs in the military where you have a lot of really fancy, expensive equipment and you got to know how to use it. And if you do, it does a lot of the work for you. So, um, great parallels there. Marc, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for sharing your story. And, uh, please stay in touch. I'd love to, you know, follow your career. I'm sure it's going to be great.

Mark Steinhoff: [00:47:07] Yeah. Thank you. Blake, I really appreciate that. And it was a good conversation. I hope this helps other veterans to.